Out of play contact

Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 107

In the third test just played one of the soups called furhman for contact on George while she was out of play.

What happened was that Furhman was taking the penalty pass & run into George, who was standing out of play. To my interpretations (& please correct me, I'm trying to improve my umpiring) contact has to interfere with a player's ability to contest or take a ball. So if a player is out of play & therefore cannot contest a ball, how can you contact them?

Joined: 04 Feb 2007 Posts: 7909

Very interesting point. Looking forward to answers.

Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Posts: 2655 Location: Sunny Queensland

Is this a 'if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?' sort of question? Laughing

Joined: 04 Feb 2007 Posts: 7909

Well, I know the answer to that one but I'm unsure with Jetmise's scenario Laughing

Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 2032 Location: MI5 Headquarters

The sound of one hand clapping . . . Wink

TBH, it will depend on the incident. The short answer is that it is possible for the player taking the penalty to infringe against the out of play player. Both players have responsibilities in setting the penalty. If the out of play player has taken up the appropriate place, it is then for the player taking the penalty to take up the appropriate place beside and away. If they do not do this by taking it "on top" of the player out of play, they should be penalized, but I would be more inclined to call it "not set" rather than contact. It sounds to me as if this would have been more appropriate for the Temp/Fuhrmann incident, but having not seen it myself, I am just going on the description.

I think a more appropriate contact call in such an instance would be a situation where the player taking the penalty takes up the correct position, but then in taking the penalty, steps into/onto/through the player out of play. In that instance, it can't be "not set" as the original setting was correct. However, the player taking the penalty is not entitled to take the space that the out of play player is in (the out of play player is not entitled to participate in play till the ball leaves the hands, but it doesn't mean the player taking the penalty is entitled to step on her!!!), and if they do so in a way that interferes with the position the out of play player has taken up, then in my view, it's correct to penalize. Again, it is a question of extent and degree, and most of all, interference, in deciding whether there is a need to penalize.

My views anyway - hope they are hepful.

Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 5360 Location: Melbourne

A similar incident occurred against Green in the second test. Wilcocks (sp?) was out of play and gave Green a whack while taking up her position out of play. I would say she was in the right spot. Green then stepped in front of Wilcocks while taking the penalty and was penalised for causing, I think. At the game, I was somewhat outraged Laughing

(as one is instinctively Embarassed

) but viewing the replay I think it was correct, as Wilcocks had nowhere sensible to move once the ball had left Green's hands.

Is that a reasonable interpretation MP (given that I presume you haven't seen the incident)?

Joined: 02 Feb 2007 Posts: 2032 Location: MI5 Headquarters

No - to me that decision sounds incorrect. It's totally acceptable for the player taking the penalty to step across in front of the player out of play - goalers do it all the time in the circle to secure an advantage in terms of rebound position. The out of player still has places to go (sideways, backwards) - it's just that they are not optimal places. The causing contact rule only requires that the player have somewhere they can move without contacting, not that the "somewhere" be a place they would like to go (something a lot of players seem a little confused about!)

Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 10521

Wilcox just did her usual dirty play, set it up for her opponent to step into her and that dullard umpire fell for it.

Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 5360 Location: Melbourne

Quote:

(something a lot of players seem a little confused about!)

And me! (Even though I thought I knew that!)

THanks.

Joined: 03 Feb 2007 Posts: 9856 Location: Adelaide

Re Wilcox ... she has a habit of appearing to be settled in her out of play position then moving into the way just as the player comes up to take the penalty.

Also in that game when Green got the bizarre contact call, Willcox did this manoevre to Hallinan. However this time the ump got a better view of it and called (correctly) a delaying penalty on Willcox and advanced the ball to the circle edge.

Re Temp/Fuhrman ... Temp also looked to be in an OK position then moved over further when she didn't need to. However, Fuhrmann was far enough away - if she'd been concentrating properly she could have easily avoided colliding with Temp. Clumsy, yes, 'interfering contact' not really .. but not quite as dumb as the call on Green.

Be interested in your comments when you get to see it MP.